People are either in love or hate STT or NESBA and trying to talk to the opposite is like talking to a brick wall. No matter what you say (or the amount of people saying it) it just doesn't make it through that one org or the other could possibly make a mistake. With that said, I try to tell as many people as possible about how much I disliked my STT experience and always try to push NESBA to my friends interested in track days. I've since learned tracks can be rented out by private parties for very reduced prices and when all you want is track time those are the best options.
First of all, I don't know who you are, but I do know that I damn sure haven't attacked you personally. Hell, I have never even noticed your screen name before. Settle down. I know I haven't talked to you (or anybody else in this thread) like that ^. No, I am not making "shitty points and dodging the facts". I just choose to sit and argue over shit that doesn't really matter. For the record, there is no "forced membership"; nobody forces you to do anything. Not to mention there is a certain organization mentioned in this thread that charges a membership fee also...and it is twice as expensive as STT's. The membership fee being "bullshit" is your opinion. Just because YOU choose not to take advantage of things that accompany a membership doesn't mean they aren't valuable. :up: I am not going to sit here and argue. As previously mentioned, people have "loyalties" to certain organizations and nobody is going to change anybody elses mind. I am not trying to convince anybody of anything. I am just saying that the things people going on and on about aren't as big of a deal they are making it out to be. Some organizations charge membership fees that are twice as expensive as others, some charge a gate fee, some charge more for track days, some charge (more) for instruction, etc. At the end of the day, it all pretty much works out the same. If you are that concerned with finances, you are in the wrong sport. I will say that I have ridden with many different track organizations. Due to my work schedule, for a while I rode with whichever track organization had a day that fit into my work schedule. If one org wasn't running at a track within driving distance on a weekend I was off, I would simply choose another one. So my loyalty is based on first hand experience with several organizations. Like I said before, choose which org that best fits your goals/needs and ride with them. It is that simple. I haven't said anything bad about any organizations; I simply stated facts. There is no reason to sit here and talk bad about an organization you choose not to ride with; it accomplishes nothing other than making you look immature .
T First of all, show me where I have attacked you personally. And nice job dodging a simple question I asked in my previous post, then deflecting the negative attention towards STT by pointing out that NESBA fee's are more. I moved to the east coast from Texas in April. I've ridden with STT once and never with NESBA, I've been deployed all summer. I have no loyalties to any of these orgs. There are no 'membership' fees in orgs in Texas. If the TD rains out you get refunded. Novice instruction is free. Suspension/tire services are offered, and the org doesn't charge you a gate fee to enter the track to participate in the trackday you already paid the org for. There are a few smaller orgs that only run a track or two on the east coast that offer the same thing. The orgs in Texas don't try to round all these services up and tack on t-shirt/stickers and turn it into a mandatory membership fee to ride with them like STT does, nor do they advertise these services like NESBA does on their website as "free," when actually they aren't free because you have to pay a $75/year membership fee for these services to become "free." I agree the NESBA membership does offer alot more value for the money, especially for people on this forum, but most of what it offers doesn't kick in until you spend thousands of dollars per year with NESBA. I would hope any TD org would offer some kind of perks for someone who's spending that kind of money on them every year. One thing you cannot argue is that the STT membership offers almost nothing to the majority of people on this forum. Sorry, I don't choose to ride in the beginner's class to get free instruction from people that wear yellow plates, nor am I going to pull you over as an STT instructor and expect you to teach me anything in the advanced class. I don't give a shit about your "cool t-shirt and stickers", if T-man isn't at the track I'm not going to use the suspension services, I get discounted parts elsewhere, and I don't ride on Michelins. Once again I'll point out this type of rider isn't rare. Choosing what organization you want to ride with shouldn't be about which one is screwing you over the least. That's what I see out of the major organizations on the East coast. If people stop participating in them for these reasons, they will change they way they do business.
I understand this is a race forum...but this thread is in the track day section. If the thread was titled "which track day org caters/offers more to racers who don't run Michelin's" and/or this thread was in the General Discussion/race section, I might could see your points (to be honest, I don't even remember what this thread was originally about). As far as my "t-shirt and stickers" included in STT's membership comment, I was being sarcastic. Maybe it didn't click because I didn't put one of these with it "". With that being said, the membership fee costs about as much as a t-shirt and some stickers. So maybe instead of calling it a membership fee, they should say "buy a cool t-shirt and some stickers and we will offer you discounts on tires and parts, free Novice Instruction and a wider selection of track days than any other organization in the country". As far as the gate fees, I have never done a race or track day with any organization where I didn't pay a gate fee. But then again, I have never been to a track in Texas. So I don't know, maybe things are different elsewhere. But the largest gate fee I have ever paid is $20 and that was at the GNF's, so I don't see it as a big deal. Definitely not worth all this drama. Like I said, everyone should research different track orgs and see which one(s) best suit their individual goals/preferences...then pick one and ride. If a certain organization doesn't fit your particular preferences, then look elsewhere. I don't know what else to tell you. If STT's curriculum doesn't fit your individual goals (although I am sure it could if you gave it a try), then look elsewhere; that is your decision. But coming on here and bashing orgs and saying people should stop riding with them isn't cool.
Bash the new guy I am new to this sport and I plan on riding with wera once I am comfortable with track riding. I did my first trackday with NESBA at Atanta, because it was too cold up North for any time. Friday was cold but I had tons of track time and folks worked with me all day. I had a bike problem on Saturday and the Coach gave me a credit for the day. I was able to get a part from a local dealer to ride on Sunday, but that day was canceled. HOWEVER I STILL got full credit. It was a great deal for the membership. It DIDNT take thousands of dollars to benefit from the membership. It kicked in right away. No gate fee, no camping charge, I didn't lose money because my bike broke or due to excessive rain. I had 5 people from the family with me. I guess that would been $30 just to get in the gate with another group. This was just my experience. Just sharing. Maybe I will ride with STT and TPM someday, but I like the insurance with NESBA, but I will ride with anyone if it makes sense. Oh, and I would NOT pay more for fewer riders. This is sport is not cheap and I hope the clubs are doing what is safe for the riders and not overselling spots. If so, I will not ride with them.
I would definitely like insurance. Can you get refunded if it rains at all, or does it have to rain "alot"?
I wouldn't pay more. Matter of fact with the economy I wouldn't doubt that trackday proces drop. I only do trackdays with the membership orgs (STT and Nesba) when they have trackdays that they wave the membership fee and/or discount trackdays due to low turnout.
A trackday thread in a racer forum is just that, TDs(practice) for racers. Commenting on services offered to beginner riders is useless here, you should know that. Racers have strict preferences on their suspension/parts and STT doesn't offer what the majority of people on this forum use. Likewise, there are so many different tire manufacturers it's a safe bet that the majority of the riders don't use Michilens, and I'm willing to bet a good portion of the ones that do can get them cheaper than what is offered at an STT trackday anyway. These aren't hard concepts to recognize. The STT membership doesn't do much of anything for the vast majority of people on this forum. Are you really trying to make a point based on comparing the gate fees at the GNFs to the gate fees at a trackday? I don't even need to explain how dumb that is. Just because a track doesn't impose a gate fee doesn't mean the TD org should step up and charge one in the interests of keeping the status quo. Some tracks in TX charge fees, others don't. In those circumstances you drive in and ride, no gate fees imposed from anyone. And now after being presented with the fact that it is complete bullshit that STT charges a 5 dollar cash 'gate fee' to everyone including paying riders just to enter to track to participate in the trackday they already paid for, the point you're going to make is basically "So what if you're getting screwed, it's not alot of money." WTF!? Quote me where I said people shouldn't ride with any org. Once gain putting words in my mouth. If you don't think trackday orgs deserve any criticism than you are ignorant. I'm going to ask this simple question again since you keep ignoring it. Why does STT charge their own gate fee, the day of, in cash to paying riders? And if STT deems it necessary to screw us, even though the STT staff say we shouldn't care because it's not alot of money, then why don't they put this charge in the cost of the trackday itself? Where's Mark? He seems like a level headed guy, I'm sure he can give us a reasonable explanation since you can't. I like what NESBA offers in their membership, it's great isn't it? Check out this thread. http://forums.13x.com/showthread.php?t=233249. Temp guarantee plus people got refunded, even though they didn't show up. All of that without any membership fees. My engine gave out on the first lap at a recent Turn 1 trackday @ CMP. I got refunded and there wasn't any membership fees. I guess people don't mind paying for stuff when they can get it for free.
The Lead Coach (BJ?) said something like we will ride on a wet track, but if it looks like it will be too dangerous based on visibility or on track hazards, they will cancel. So, I think it was called due to combination of heavy rain, lack track drainage and very cold weather. I remember someone here posting they were one of the guys that looked at the track to decide. Sorry, but it was my only TD so I don't know if that is the normal way. It made sense to me I guess if the track owners give refunds to the club, the club should in turn refund the member. If not, its a shared risk? The option to buy insurance is cool. Maybe drop the membership and offer insurance? Off topic, but that seems to be the norm here . I did a search on the forums and this comes up a lot. -Rodger
Nope, not putting words in your mouth... There are TONS of people on this site who have NEVER raced (Hell, there are people on this site who don't even know what WERA stands for, they just come here to sell shit). My point is that this thread is in the Track Day Section...where track riders come to discuss things...not just racers. BTW - a "racer practice day" and "track day" are two totally different things. :up: No, go back and read my statement regarding gate fees and apply some reading comprehension to it. I said "the largest gate fee I have ever paid was $20 and that was at the GNF's, so I don't see it as a big deal". Which means, I have never paid a gate fee more than $20 and most of the time it is like $5-$10, so I don't see it as a big deal. Neither I nor anybody else can tell you what you should or shouldn't care about. I have paid gate fees for years and I have never seen them as a big deal...and damn sure not worth all this drama. But to answer your question, I don't know why there is a gate fee. From what I gather, most tracks charge gate fees; I don't know; I have nothing to do with it. Why does McDonalds charge for extra Ranch Dressing when Burger King gives it away? Like I have said, ride with whom you want to ride with based upon your personal goals and preferences. If a certain group doesn't fit your preferences (including financial aspects), then move on. It is that simple, yet you continue to argue for no reason other than to get the last word.
if the OP is keeping track, I would NOT pay more to have fewer riders on the track - but I've never ridden with a group where I felt like there were too many people out there. the STT/NESBA argument can go on for days - no one is forcing anyone to ride with either group, so I fail to see the point of that argument. If anyone has the burning desire to discuss that, I check PM's regularly.
I know why WERA and STT etc.. charges gate fees. It's called they are a FOR profit business and they have to do what they can do make money. That's it, very simple, and definitely not worth getting you pantys in a wad over
I heard the contrary on the gate fees. It was explained on the STT forum that gate fees went to the track and not to STT, or possibly only a portion.
I have to agree with my friend Steverin06 on this one.... paying a gate fee and paying membership fees for a trackday is a joke. It doesn't happen here in Texas and everything that STT offers is available down here in the way of instruction is FREE!
