Mongo
Administrator
Wouldn't that be better than all year
Um, huh?
STT Schedule is up on the web Site
- Thread starter David Grey
- Start date
Um, huh?
Mongo
Administrator
The more I think about this the more curious I am. How exactly is it good business to promise your customers things you can't deliver? This isn't the first time STT has promised via a schedule they'll be somewhere that odds are very good won't happen. Do your customers just not give a shit or do they forget once you able to put the blame on the racetrack for not doing what they promised?
Lizard 1
Well-Known Member
I think the difference, Sean is that a track day has a TON of competition to worry about swooping in and securing a track that easily can make or break a company to be at or not. While WERA can sit and wait until the track opens as the track will WANT you guys there to validate for other reasons. Make sense? They can fit you in 1-3 weekends after they open. Whereas a track day company that needs more events may not be able to do much more. I suspect once they open, you'd get 1-2 weekends at best. That's not good for a track day company like STT...
Meaning, if STT waits for AMP and NESBA who would LOVE nothing more than to penetrate the market down south, comes in and sets up shop for when they DO open. Let alone the mass of other track day companies that want a taste of that... STT comes in and has a lot more dates than what WERA is going to have and that is attractive to a track. Having 12-20 events a year and contracted is a great thing for tracks where a race org comes in and offers what? 1-3 events a year?
Like BG... You were willing to do a weekend. STT was in there, talking with owners, helping with ideas, etc and offering 20 events. Most of those were 2 day venues...
So, on a purely financial basis, the track day companies are a bigger draw to a track than a race org - unless something like MotoGP, etc... I'm referring to regional based stuff...
Maybe I'm thinking about it wrong, but the track day companies that work with tracks at inception are likely to not only accomplish things in a revenue sense, but also to secure their footprint in an already secure region. Plus, the amount of following STT has is a draw to tracks as well. I am sure other companies will get in there, but at the start, everyone is wanting to ride AMP and guess who will be having dates there when they do?
Lizard 1
Well-Known Member
I also think you are being kind of rude towards the whole idea. I know you and Monte aren't bed buddies, but you make it sound like STT doesn't care about the customers. We as staff were really bummed about BG. In fact, me and the whole Mid-O staff were the most. We were left with hopes that BG would be our new home as the other regions were filled with quality staff and directors.
STT never blamed the track. Actually, they should have and could have easily. I feel that the owners were never up front enough and were not wanting people to jump ship over the news of issues. I think Monte and Bonnie were somewhat mislead and they always WANTED it to open and they always WANTED to get in there as it COULD be a great facility. I don't think anyone was strung along any more than they were. My opinion...
But, just don't make it out that STT doesn't care about customers. We staff and directors take offense at that...
Mongo
Administrator
So then explain to me how scheduling dates at a track that is extremely unlikely to be open by the first one is good customer service.
I'm sorry you feel I'm being rude but tough shit. Has nothing to do with liking or disliking Monte or anyone else, has to do with a simple question out of curiosity. I know why we don't schedule dates at tracks that don't exist and probably won't any time soon. I understand why it's good for our customers that we don't do so. I am wondering how it is that doing the exact opposite and promising things you're pretty sure you can't deliver is good customer service.
BTW - everyone always wants a new track to open. What's that got to do with it actually happening? Monte has been around this shit long enough by now to know better. I would assume whoever is running STT now would also know better.
So anyway, my question stands, is it that the customers don't care? Is it that they don't know any better and if the track doesn't open well then you were obviously lied to so it could never be your fault? Is it that the potential of getting more dates than anyone else by agreeing when you know better makes you look good in some way? I'd love to hear an answer because none of that would fly in roadracing, well at least not with my boss as I said earlier. I'm curious if track day customers are really that different.
I'm sorry you feel I'm being rude but tough shit. Has nothing to do with liking or disliking Monte or anyone else, has to do with a simple question out of curiosity. I know why we don't schedule dates at tracks that don't exist and probably won't any time soon. I understand why it's good for our customers that we don't do so. I am wondering how it is that doing the exact opposite and promising things you're pretty sure you can't deliver is good customer service.
BTW - everyone always wants a new track to open. What's that got to do with it actually happening? Monte has been around this shit long enough by now to know better. I would assume whoever is running STT now would also know better.
So anyway, my question stands, is it that the customers don't care? Is it that they don't know any better and if the track doesn't open well then you were obviously lied to so it could never be your fault? Is it that the potential of getting more dates than anyone else by agreeing when you know better makes you look good in some way? I'd love to hear an answer because none of that would fly in roadracing, well at least not with my boss as I said earlier. I'm curious if track day customers are really that different.
TLR67
Well-Known Member
By putting the word tentative next to the dates is NOT a promise... Same thing with the Bluegrass Dates offered awhile back... These dates were not promised to anyone... They were offered and could be reserved and if the track was open they would have been used.. I am sure While others sitting on the fence waiting that might not get a spot would probally find a way to blame STT, Monte ect for bad business anyway... Most everyone can reschedule a vacation day... Its not like people were showing up to the track ready to ride... I think Richard is doing the right thing here and hopefully I will be able to drive 20 Minutes up the road to a new track soon. Hope to see some of you there...
The post above also sums things up well..
+1 .. Nothing is promised.. AMP asked if they would be willing to book the dates.. STT said yes.. People can throw down cash and reserve if they want.. They dont HAVE to. If its not open, it gets pushed back, get a credit towards another day, or maybe even a full refund. I would do the same thing if I were STT.. Hopefully it opens on time and STT is the only trackday org in there!!
TLR67
Well-Known Member
I hope everyone will have a chance to go there and give them the business they will definietly need... However with the Country Club set up there are limited dates... And NO weekends left I am sure... Only weekdays.. Regardless as the great Mongo once said... " Call me when there is pavement"
I say.. Call me when the sealer is done....
Motorin Mark
Well-Known Member
Please, please everybody re-read my post #29 on this thread. That post explains our situation on AMP pretty clearly. We are not trying to "LIE" to anybody.
We just talked with the owner again yesterday and they are still hoping for a mid to late March opening and so are we.
Nobody at STT is forcing anybody to pre-register for any of our events, if you are the slightest bit nervous about AMP, hold tight, it will be ok and we still appreciate all of your support.
We just talked with the owner again yesterday and they are still hoping for a mid to late March opening and so are we.
Nobody at STT is forcing anybody to pre-register for any of our events, if you are the slightest bit nervous about AMP, hold tight, it will be ok and we still appreciate all of your support.
kiggy74
As useful as an...
No doubt that some people might get pissed off if they've signed up for AMP dates and the track doesn't open on time. But I think the difference here vs Bluegrass is the expecation that's being set in advance.
Seems like STT has done a good job in setting an realistic (although somewhat optomistic) expectation of whether or not those March/April dates at AMP are going to going to happen or not. If STT customers don't want to take the risk then they won't sign up. If sign-up is so low then maybe the dates get pulled anyway. If they do accept the risk and sign up but the track isn't ready, they get the refund that they were promised from the start.
You run into customer service issues when what's delivered is short of the expecations that were set. The potential benefits to STT's customers still outweigh the risk IMO. If the customers don't agree, then they shouldn't sign up for those dates.
And yes, I'd say that track day riders are less sensitive to this kind of stuff than a racer that's planning a season of events based on a goal of points/championships.
Seems like STT has done a good job in setting an realistic (although somewhat optomistic) expectation of whether or not those March/April dates at AMP are going to going to happen or not. If STT customers don't want to take the risk then they won't sign up. If sign-up is so low then maybe the dates get pulled anyway. If they do accept the risk and sign up but the track isn't ready, they get the refund that they were promised from the start.
You run into customer service issues when what's delivered is short of the expecations that were set. The potential benefits to STT's customers still outweigh the risk IMO. If the customers don't agree, then they shouldn't sign up for those dates.
And yes, I'd say that track day riders are less sensitive to this kind of stuff than a racer that's planning a season of events based on a goal of points/championships.
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sheepofblue
Well-Known Member
Rather than complaining ALL year they only complain for months
Lizard 1
Well-Known Member
As stated by a good number of people already and I thought was mentioned in my post... STT never LIED to anyone. They never PROMISED anything to anyone. Is it a lie to racers if you schedule Roebling due to a hurricane that comes to town and cancels the event? Since the track is fully booked, you cannot readjust the schedule and the event is simply dropped? Remember the fires deal years ago? Were those lies and false promises?
The point is that things are sometimes out of a company's hands. STT is really no different than WERA. They are both companies that go to tracks to schedule dates for events. Track days are a higher sought after commodity due to revenue generating ability vs a race org. Again, unless we are talking AMA, MotoGP, etc... I am referring to regional/local race series like WERA is.
So, if a new track is opening and a company wants to get in and create a lasting relationship with that new track, they sit down and the track essentially asks what the company can provide. A list of dates or a list of numbered events are given all on a basis of this track opening.
Most race ors cannot afford to risk going to unopened tracks simply due to a few reasons. One, you run a set number of races per season in regions. You have established races and venues that are long term and scheduled in advance. To shuffle venues and events is a big ordeal and the schedule is important to the company, but also to sponsors, etc. Trackdays do not need to worry about sponsors and such. They can add as well as deduct events w/o really upsetting the schedule. If STT has 100 events a year at the same venues and have only added or loss 3-4 dates +/-, and they ADD 20 dates from a new venue, it isn't an issue. You can't do that and do not have the capacity to do so...
The track day sets a schedule and the track works hard to get opened. Just like a new home, there can be red tape. Bankers, contractors, environment, etc. If the track hits a wall like BG, it is a loss for sure, but never a lie being exposed. All dates are tentative. Customers are always refunded (Sometimes at a loss - remember, you don't get that % loss from Credit Card customers when you refund) 100%. Sure, it sucks they have to cancel, but the hopes are positive that it opens and not skeptical.
Track day customers are not racers. Hell, the mentality of a racer is to spend as little as possible for everything. Track day guys and gals are usually better customers in terms of spending. Less asking for discounts, freebies, etc. They spend hard earned money and aren't happy to loose it, but these are like planned vacations, destination tracks, etc. If things get cancelled, it isn't a week prior. Like stated, if there is skeptical folks out there, they usually aren't going to apply for the date until they know it is finished and ready to go.
I know I don't use the word "shit" as much as you do nor act as angry due to rooted reasons, but the fact is that nobody lies, nobody promises and nobody is hung out to dry one way or another. Track days are a completely different animal when scheduling tracks. But, please... Do not lump us as bad guys and not caring for customers. Customers are our #1 priority and we cater well to them. We may not satisfy everyone - you never do in a business - all the time, but we have a damn good return rate and for the most part, a positive response to when asked about how they are treated. When you come in and start throwing out comments and adjectives like you have, it comes across as STT is ripping people off and being shady in how things run. Remember, you are the face of WERA and people on here may think what you say is gospel. It could be negative and slanderish to some...
You and Evelyn have a great company and a great way of handling things. I have always stated that you all run the best show. It's true. If the way you do things is working, that's awesome. Keep doing what works as they say... However, track days are run differently and are focused on a different demographic of people... Therefore, it isn't the same and trying to make it sound like it should be is false and wrong to do so...
HondaGalToo
Well-Known Member
This. This is why they are "proactive" in scheduling dates at a yet-to-be-completed facility. So they can be the first ones "in the door" and then manage to block any other orgs from running dates there. So, then if you want to ride the brandy-new track, you're forced to do so with STT. At least that's my take on it.
rk97
Well-Known Member
absolutely not true. I did receive a full refund for the Bluegrass dates I booked, but was told that my membership was non refundable.
I had no intention of riding any other dates with STT that season, and was not able to do so.
I'm not going to complain that STT "ripped me off," because I acknowledge that I had the (theoretical) opportunity to book other events with them, but the fact is I am out $35 because I was told Bluegrass would be ready to ride, and I relied upon that assertion when I purchased my membership.
I'm not going to bitch an moan over $35, but to say no one lost any money untrue.
rk97
Well-Known Member
I seem to recall a forum post on the STT board where Monte said, "We WILL ride Bluegrass in October."
He later admitted his mistake, and apologized, but what would you call that? I'm sure there was never any intent to deceive - does that make it less of a lie?
Being up-front about the possibility of the track not being ready is a step in the right direction. Having refund policies for such events PRE-planned is another good step.
Like someone else said in the AMP thread, "fool me once, shame on you. fool me twice, shame on me." STT was never trying to fool anyone, but it happened. Their efforts to not repeat that mistake are appreciated, if a bit hollow.
Razr
Well-Known Member
+1...Excellent point. :up:
Tdub
Say what???
You seemed to have answered your own question and making a very valid point in the process. Tdub
Tdub
Say what???
As far as I know, STT is not an exclusive provider at any track. Now quite sure how this would even be done, but maybe you could enlighten us. Tdub
kiggy74
As useful as an...
Call it semantics if you'd like, but this sounds to me more of a disagreement regarding whether or not the membership should be be necessary for those customers that don't plan to ride more than one STT event per year. Maybe the solution is to charge a member and non-member rate for each event. Hopefully you at least got your T-shirt and stickers, cause you paid $35 bucks for them.