Roebling

All fault/blame/legality stuff aside, that was a terrifying video. So glad no one was killed. I think this event will be (and should be) brought up at every riders meeting for the next year or so just so we can all get the lessons learned.

I'm not familiar with Roebling, but this also shows a glaring design flaw in layout that should be fixed. There's gotta be a better way to enter/exit track interior than that.
 
It's not. It is a weird Nor. Cal thing only for some track days orgs and no race orgs I know of.
The argument is that they get to roll maybe 60 seconds earlier, but for that kind of risk? No thank you, it just seems so wrong.

I should have prefaced that... I was at start/finish on a red flag and was pushing my bike to hot pit exit and got scolded and counselled to STAY ON THE TRACK in 100 degree heat.
Then when I said my bike had a mechanical... they wanted me to wait for the crash truck pickup at the end of the day... yeah no thanks. I got my tech sticker pulled...
 
All fault/blame/legality stuff aside, that was a terrifying video. So glad no one was killed. I think this event will be (and should be) brought up at every riders meeting for the next year or so just so we can all get the lessons learned.

I'm not familiar with Roebling, but this also shows a glaring design flaw in layout that should be fixed. There's gotta be a better way to enter/exit track interior than that.
Negative.
 
Not going dark, going home - I haven't posted a thing to social media. No we're not going into details at this point. Yes it happened. Yes we are looking into the specifics to make sure something like that won't happen again.

We can start a conversation about recent donut events if it will buy you some time to get the details.
 
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All fault/blame/legality stuff aside, that was a terrifying video. So glad no one was killed. I think this event will be (and should be) brought up at every riders meeting for the next year or so just so we can all get the lessons learned.

I'm not familiar with Roebling, but this also shows a glaring design flaw in layout that should be fixed. There's gotta be a better way to enter/exit track interior than that.

even having a bridge going over the track invites it's own issues.. like a bike going off track and hitting the embankments. (think NJMP, Summit point..don't know if it's ever happened though) but many tracks have the pit areas inside the track.

everyone agrees this never should have happened, but it was human error that allowed it to happen. who/whom was at fault? maybe we will hear more on this, or maybe we won't. But not having a marshal at the gate, in charge of never allowing the gate to even be raised when the track is hot.. is a start.
 
Not going dark, going home - I haven't posted a thing to social media. No we're not going into details at this point. Yes it happened. Yes we are looking into the specifics to make sure something like that won't happen again.
Yeah man, you can write a 25 word post while the engine warms up and you're punching the address into google lol.

It DOES look bad that y'all couldn't say something professional and vague like that on all the socials and even starting a thread here with the same message ,if you want to go above and beyond, before rolling out of the paddock. It's not a huge deal, but it goes pretty squarely into the "oopsie" column on your part.
 
This just highlights the need for everyone to be situationally aware. For sure crossing a hot track like that lends itself to potential issues, but I've seen it happen many times in the past. If the race isn't red flagged, then at the very least there should be additional communication with corners and crew to get the ambulance across the track. I can recall a fair number of instances like this at Grattan, where the ambulance came up the road from T3 and needed to cross. Exit speed off the last corner put bikes at the exit road pretty quick, but IIRC there would be a call from the corner workers monitoring the hairpin that there was a safe gap.

Wasn't there an issue with Mladin at Road A, where he almost hit an ambulance? Even though you're on a closed course, you still have to keep your eyes open for unforeseen things in your path...turtles, birds, snakes, ambulances.... watching that video, you can see the ambulance creeping out, and he's still on the throttle. I'm sure he's not expecting the thing to cross in front of him, but would you make that assumption on the street? I assume everyone is out to kill me, or at the very least, doesn't see me. The problem is, we get focused on NOT shutting off....I've been caught up in wrecks where I saw the risk, but didn't want to lose time, so delayed my response till I was out of options. I'm not saying it's the fault of any rider btw....I'd be beyond furious. Just that stupid things happen, and there's usually an opportunity to learn from our own responses to it. Thankfully this didn't turn out to be a fatal incident.
 
Yeah man, you can write a 25 word post while the engine warms up and you're punching the address into google lol.

It DOES look bad that y'all couldn't say something professional and vague like that on all the socials and even starting a thread here with the same message ,if you want to go above and beyond, before rolling out of the paddock. It's not a huge deal, but it goes pretty squarely into the "oopsie" column on your part.

We covered the incident at the riders meeting at the track for the riders and teams and families who were there. Riders involved are important, people at the track are important, social media is not.
 
even having a bridge going over the track invites it's own issues.. like a bike going off track and hitting the embankments. (think NJMP, Summit point..don't know if it's ever happened though) but many tracks have the pit areas inside the track.

everyone agrees this never should have happened, but it was human error that allowed it to happen. who/whom was at fault? maybe we will hear more on this, or maybe we won't. But not having a marshal at the gate, in charge of never allowing the gate to even be raised when the track is hot.. is a start.
IIRC someone passed away from hitting the Summit Point bridge/embankment and someone else seriously injured around the VIR bridge too
 
That was after the year they hit the Ambulance I think that was back in 1999 or 2000 and I think Tommy Hayden was involved in it? I can't remember


I'm not sure about something like that happening back in 1999/2000, but that video and incident was from 2009 when DMG had control of things.
 
But not having a marshal at the gate, in charge of never allowing the gate to even be raised when the track is hot.. is a start.

I dont know where the ambo was parked this time, but every time I have been to Roebling, the ambo had been stationed between the infield gate and the track.
 
As horrific as it is to watch, it came down to human error. It sucks but it happens.
All the assholes who are threatening legal action are just that. Assholes. Yeah, get lawyers involved, that solves everything.
 
Right, so many SOP's, or at least SOP's at my department that would have me thanking God this did not turn out much worse along with me being excused from the dept. and having to hang up my turnouts for the last time.
Not trying to be an armchair QB here, because its hard to say without being part of it, the events that unfolded to lead up to this and who is in the wrong to assume liability here, if any one person, but I can talk from 13 years of being on the Fire department and about 30 years of on and off the track how certain protocols are put into place and should be followed to avoid situations like this.

Not just at the track, on the street as well because every day it becomes harder to respond running 10-30 without common courtesy for others lives and common sense from outside sources.
10-30 in my area is code for high speed, in a hurry to arrive on scene or to hospital, also means dangerous/high risk situation. We will ask dispatch if we need to run 10 -30 traffic or not, especially if there is any open for interpretation situation.

Aka, people not aware they should pull to the right off the road as much as possible in a safe spot and come to a stop, not blocking a drive/entrance or cross street. Do not chase or outrun the responding units. If sitting still at a light or all the way to the left and unable to pull to the right slow down and stay where you are making your movement and path of travel as predictable as possible, if in heavy traffic stop and go, stay where you are, or if possible move the right as much as possible to allow an opening for units to get through.
Check your mirrors and surroundings to understand and anticipate the path of travel by emergency units.
And then the units themselves..... #1 rule we have is drive in a manner that allows the apparatus to come to a complete stop at and before any intersections. There are many other protocols we have in place, but that is one of the number 1 rules now.

Now this is a race track so without proper warning and notifications, or signals.....I mean dang. Again not sure what happened here....but there was some breakdown in communication to the racers and not enough aggressive warning or notice.
Like maybe someone by the crossing at the barriers waving red and yellow flags or something.......watching for bikes coming down that straight.

Something to reduce the chances or mistakes or accidents, but we all know accidents will happen but if they do, checks in place to avoid life ending mistakes.
Which nobodies life was ended as a result of this, but definitely not making light of the situation because with the right precautions in place this probably would have just been a serious pucker moment for both of those riders, but not a serious wreck either.

Not sure really if I am entitled to any say in this, but in my mind the goal should be what did we learn from this, that #1 two riders could have been killed so how do we go from could have been to two riders killed to, at worst could have maybe had a close call with running off track and slowly dropping the bike at the most, or having to pull off track and stop. At the least them crashing in the manner they did is what happened here, at the worst side of what could have happened here is two dead riders and a probably some injuries to persons in the ambulance from impact by two bikes at 100+
WERA has well established protocols for this situation, based on many years' experience. One or more weren't followed here which is why at least two riders to put in serious jeopardy. I suspect we'll eventually learn where the fault lies. Someone lifted the gate on the infield side of the track, the driver drove across the track slowly and without activating the lights or siren, and someone(s) may have directed these two things to happen.
 
even having a bridge going over the track invites it's own issues.. like a bike going off track and hitting the embankments. (think NJMP, Summit point..don't know if it's ever happened though) but many tracks have the pit areas inside the track.

everyone agrees this never should have happened, but it was human error that allowed it to happen. who/whom was at fault? maybe we will hear more on this, or maybe we won't. But not having a marshal at the gate, in charge of never allowing the gate to even be raised when the track is hot.. is a start.
That’s why you need some fail safes when humans are involved, no different than getting on your bike after say, swapping a front wheel. I used to put these tags with alligator clips on both my gas tank filler and brake lever. One said fuel and one said pump. Fuel was first thing I did after putting it on the stand and brake was always with my front change tire tools (always kept separate tools for wheel changes as I’m pretty anal about doing it a certain way and sequence every time, May sound odd to some but it’s always been my way to make sure I don’t miss anything. Is it 100% fail safe, no but it was just a way to try to ensure I don’t go out and asspack someone in T1. Always makes me so nervous when someone’s changing a wheel and someone comes to talk to them , they stop what they are doing, stand up and start talking for a while. Where it gets hairy is when they’ve been talking for a while then all of a sudden it’s first or 2nd call then they rush.
 
WERA has well established protocols for this situation, based on many years' experience. One or more weren't followed here which is why at least two riders to put in serious jeopardy. I suspect we'll eventually learn where the fault lies. Someone lifted the gate on the infield side of the track, the driver drove across the track slowly and without activating the lights or siren, and someone(s) may have directed these two things to happen.
Shit, didn’t know if there was a gate or not. I’m very confident from a WERA side of things they will get to the bottom of this one as well as check with the other tracks. Once again I’m just glad everyone is relatively ok, could have been bad not just for the rider but people in the ambulance as well. I’m game if anyone wants to set up a pool and buy these two some lottery tickets, not joking on that one either.
 
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