Roebling

tl1098 said:
Under red would it be more plausible for riders to roll off and stop at nearest marshall station,roll the ambulance and then return to hot pit or pit in after ambo clears track?
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I think it's perfectly manageable to send an ambulance during a red flag. What happened here was something completely different. I'm appalled and am waiting for a clear explanation of how this horrific failure was allowed to happen.
 
tl1098 said:
Under red would it be more plausible for riders to roll off and stop at nearest marshall station,roll the ambulance and then return to hot pit or pit in after ambo clears track?
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SCCA road racing does what you suggest. Red flag means you stick your arm ,wave it around, and then stop on track until notified to return to the pits. Having followed both procedures, I prefer what we do with bikes.
 
When I took the road racing licensing school back in 2001 they deployed an ambulance onto the race track to simulate that scenario. The ambulance flag was displayed along with yellow flags. You are allowed to pass the ambulance but under a caution flag scenario only. However even though the ambulance is on circuit it IS moving in the same direction as the racing circuit. It is NOT fucking crossing the damn track. Jesus tap dancing Christ. What were they thinking?!
 
Ironically, I left Roebling Road early yesterday and was sitting waiting to be allowed to cross the track. While doing so, never having left early before, I commented to my wife that nobody was out monitoring the crossing area. Yes, the gates were closed, but not a single human being around as added protection from someone accidentally wondering onto the track. It scared me actually, thinking to myself this is an area I was just passing on the track at wide open throttle in top gear. Than after getting home and seeing what transpired after I left, I was horrified and immediately got a sickening feeling in my gut. We all know that should have never happened, however it did and the prospect of it happening again is real. That set-up / design is simply prone to an accident waiting to happen, and it just did. Thus, it needs to be discussed at every safety briefing and I truly believe humans need to be out standing guard at that crossing. Checks and balances, redundancy is what prevents things like this from happening. So thankful our fellow racers are relatively ok. Hopefully the organization, track personnel, and rescue personnel learn from this, count their blessings, and make changes to their procedures so that we may all continue to enjoy the sport we love!
 
I just saw the second video from the racer that struck the back of the ambulance. Its infuriating to say the least. That and the fact that no one has even called or stop by from wera to check on him is unbelievable.
 
mad8vskillz said:
i worked at millvile rescue doing fire and tow at njmp. for cars hot pulls were perfectly normal.
for bikes we would roll behind the last rider. so not wating for them to get off track but following them. under some extreme conditions (or someone running the red...) we may have gone a bit earlier but would have stayed off track as much as possible and been moving.

this dude was crawling across the track and didnt even have his lights on. the barriers dont help either cause there's nowhere to go and less visibility
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Right, so many SOP's, or at least SOP's at my department that would have me thanking God this did not turn out much worse along with me being excused from the dept. and having to hang up my turnouts for the last time.
Not trying to be an armchair QB here, because its hard to say without being part of it, the events that unfolded to lead up to this and who is in the wrong to assume liability here, if any one person, but I can talk from 13 years of being on the Fire department and about 30 years of on and off the track how certain protocols are put into place and should be followed to avoid situations like this.

Not just at the track, on the street as well because every day it becomes harder to respond running 10-30 without common courtesy for others lives and common sense from outside sources.
10-30 in my area is code for high speed, in a hurry to arrive on scene or to hospital, also means dangerous/high risk situation. We will ask dispatch if we need to run 10 -30 traffic or not, especially if there is any open for interpretation situation.

Aka, people not aware they should pull to the right off the road as much as possible in a safe spot and come to a stop, not blocking a drive/entrance or cross street. Do not chase or outrun the responding units. If sitting still at a light or all the way to the left and unable to pull to the right slow down and stay where you are making your movement and path of travel as predictable as possible, if in heavy traffic stop and go, stay where you are, or if possible move the right as much as possible to allow an opening for units to get through.
Check your mirrors and surroundings to understand and anticipate the path of travel by emergency units.
And then the units themselves..... #1 rule we have is drive in a manner that allows the apparatus to come to a complete stop at and before any intersections. There are many other protocols we have in place, but that is one of the number 1 rules now.

Now this is a race track so without proper warning and notifications, or signals.....I mean dang. Again not sure what happened here....but there was some breakdown in communication to the racers and not enough aggressive warning or notice.
Like maybe someone by the crossing at the barriers waving red and yellow flags or something.......watching for bikes coming down that straight.

Something to reduce the chances or mistakes or accidents, but we all know accidents will happen but if they do, checks in place to avoid life ending mistakes.
Which nobodies life was ended as a result of this, but definitely not making light of the situation because with the right precautions in place this probably would have just been a serious pucker moment for both of those riders, but not a serious wreck either.

Not sure really if I am entitled to any say in this, but in my mind the goal should be what did we learn from this, that #1 two riders could have been killed so how do we go from could have been to two riders killed to, at worst could have maybe had a close call with running off track and slowly dropping the bike at the most, or having to pull off track and stop. At the least them crashing in the manner they did is what happened here, at the worst side of what could have happened here is two dead riders and a probably some injuries to persons in the ambulance from impact by two bikes at 100+
 
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Itey said:
I just saw the second video from the racer that struck the back of the ambulance. Its infuriating to say the least. That and the fact that no one has even called or stop by from wera to check on him is unbelievable.
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Got a link to where that video is posted?
 
grasshopper said:
When I took the road racing licensing school back in 2001 they deployed an ambulance onto the race track to simulate that scenario.
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It's no different today. They did the same thing with an ambulance on the race track in September of 2022 when I took the class. They wanted us to get safely passed it during the mock race.

I've watched the video 20x now, and it's just insanity. I'm glad to know that nobody was killed. Hopefully it brings about some procedural changes to minimize the risk of something like this happening again.
 
TurboBlew said:
thats how they do it on the west coast...
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It's not. It is a weird Nor. Cal thing only for some track days orgs and no race orgs I know of.

It takes just as long to have a group of 25-40 riders figure out the red flag, find a place to stop, not ram into each other, and sit. Just hand up, roll off, and come off track at 80%? Can't be worth the added risk (obviously).

No thank you, it just seems so wrong.
 
SPL170db said:
Getting flashbacks of that year AMA used "pace cars" and the fiasco that happened with the pace car basically parked on track on the other side of the front straight and Blake Young almost ramming into it.


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That was after the year they hit the Ambulance I think that was back in 1999 or 2000 and I think Tommy Hayden was involved in it? I can't remember
 
I know it would be out of the norm but a simple

"We are investigating the specific events that led to yesterday's accident. Its unacceptable and we take the safety of our riders very seriously."

Would pay huge dividends down the road. Going dark while still being active on social media does not bode well.
 
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