No HWT Classes for 2018

It's Saturday and almost time for football, I'll be back Monday if I'm smart enough to stay off of here tomorrow....
 
Rationally? I will agree. I was off on my math. The B Classes had more than we did. But not by much. Over the course of a year and even per event, we were neck and neck for the most part. Why we cannot combine the two classes for this season only to give us HWT guys a final season is beyond me. You'd be looking at an average of (10) racers on the grid in two classes for one race vs two races with an average of about (5) racers in each class and each race.

Rationally would be saying that I have no argument and yet I am arguing. YOU made the decision to cut an entire class 2 months before the season starts rather than looking at this mid-year last season and announcing earlier. You mentioned track time and we offer to combine with B classes. Shot down. You mention grid sizes. We offer to increase a couple of races by combining with B class which not only allows the HWT entries to continue vs falling off (Which we all agree and know will happen) by telling HWT guys to race open classes. Shot down.

I cannot see where I am not being rational. I am pissed. I put a lot into last season even though I bought the slower bike and raced in lightly attended classes (Your words). I didn't have a crystal ball knowing how many people race in what class. Let's face it, ALL the grids are small. Any championship or win is going to be in lightly attended races...

Whatever. It's done. Class eliminated. Wake up to texts that you've dropped classes and here we are. No input, no suggestions taken, no polls, nothing. Guess I am not being rational.
 
I guess that seals the deal on me sticking with CMRA. I was hoping to check out a few WERA rounds this year.
 
Lizard 1 said:
Rationally? I will agree. I was off on my math. The B Classes had more than we did. But not by much. Over the course of a year and even per event, we were neck and neck for the most part. Why we cannot combine the two classes for this season only to give us HWT guys a final season is beyond me. You'd be looking at an average of (10) racers on the grid in two classes for one race vs two races with an average of about (5) racers in each class and each race.

Rationally would be saying that I have no argument and yet I am arguing. YOU made the decision to cut an entire class 2 months before the season starts rather than looking at this mid-year last season and announcing earlier. You mentioned track time and we offer to combine with B classes. Shot down. You mention grid sizes. We offer to increase a couple of races by combining with B class which not only allows the HWT entries to continue vs falling off (Which we all agree and know will happen) by telling HWT guys to race open classes. Shot down.

I cannot see where I am not being rational. I am pissed. I put a lot into last season even though I bought the slower bike and raced in lightly attended classes (Your words). I didn't have a crystal ball knowing how many people race in what class. Let's face it, ALL the grids are small. Any championship or win is going to be in lightly attended races...

Whatever. It's done. Class eliminated. Wake up to texts that you've dropped classes and here we are. No input, no suggestions taken, no polls, nothing. Guess I am not being rational.
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You're still only talking one region.

Refusal to listen to what I'm saying and the facts is not shooting anything down nor is it rational.

You're correct on input and not sure what texts have to do with anything. I know what you're input would be, the same as you're posting right now.

And again, I am sorry about the late notice.
 
418 said:
I always thought HWT was kinda like a class for guys that wanted to run a big bike but not get in the way of the wanna be (and current) MotoAmerica SBK guys. Now you're gonna throw me out there to the wolves and shit.
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I'll just roll with it and hold folks up with my triumph in CSB and BSB I guess. I did have fun in HWT. After Brian cleared off in the distance, myself and Aaron had a good 675 battle.

re 1.jpg
 
I know lizard may not like this, but when we were racing I always thought of HWT's as the place, slower guys could try and get a trophy. I don't remember thinking about any other class that way, except age based classes and those made sense to me.

So many make fun of milineals all wanting participation trophies, and that is HWT twins summed up to me.
 
rob linders said:
I know lizard may not like this, but when we were racing I always thought of HWT's as the place, slower guys could try and get a trophy. I don't remember thinking about any other class that way, except age based classes and those made sense to me.

So many make fun of milineals all wanting participation trophies, and that is HWT twins summed up to me.
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It's all about commitment and resources. I wanted to race with club guys that had to go back to work on Monday morning. Not with ex WSBK riders and past and future MotoAmerica riders. Same reasons guys race LWT, etc. Nothing wrong with that.

Unless we wanna just blanket statement that anybody who doesn't line up on the MotoGP/WSBK grid is a pussy that's wanting a participation trophy.
 
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Mongo said:
The Twins provided just enough bikes or enough speed differential to have to split either them out or the classes they are with got split up when normally they wouldn't. That costs track time. Not enough twins to justify that track time.

Another issue is there is no reason to have a twins class. Modern Twins can be competitive with the 4's and the older twins are just like the older everything, they do not need a class just to make sure they get a trophy. It's outlived it's usefulness (the only reason it got started was Suzuki money on the TL).

Yes for the handful of you who ride big twins and like getting the trophies/championships it sucks and I am sorry about that. But as everyone keeps saying, we've got to change some stuff and this is where it starts.
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I realize I'm punching the air here, though why do you keep coming back to this trophy thing? Stated the same thing in the Vintage thread and now twice here and believe you are missing the mark. You act as if the guys out at the pointy end of the twins class aren't laying it all out there and risking everything for the win - they are. The key is that I am there for the competition on like-type bikes and with like-minded racers and racing at the best tracks and best organization. 418 (post 17 and 29) said it perfectly and my 1199 isn't going to suddenly be able to go up against May, Taylor, Wacker, Luis, Kyle and Company in the A class just because it's cc's say it should. Neither is my brain prepared to be mixed up in a race like that. Pretty sure those guys aren't running twins for a reason too, and that's why you have a HWT twins class. Or had....or maybe will reinstate the next time you ride your Hyper, eh?

If you are going to stick to the idea that it creates more track time for Vintage (slower lap times creates more track time?) then ok, you have the dot on that. Sounds like the other org changed too and maybe those riders will be looking to go somewhere to race their twins. An opportunity? Lots of folks posting up that are looking to ride twins and the stats given for past entries is still money in the bank just the same.

Anyway, please change the perception that the dollars spent to support WERA since '89, the motorcycle industry and sponsors, the injuries suffered, and effort to bring in others to racing is boiled down to some simplistic mindset like Rob Linders that it's all done for a piece of wood. Doubtful anyone races for that reason and don't believe anyone here is lobbying for the class for that reason either. Although I do want to win my plates back from Stephen; he's too nice of a guy to have the last of them. :D Find the time; combine (V8HW?); reinstate the class; let us race (twin to twin). Please. With Yuengling on top.
 
If youre not on a Panigale or the 1190 Buell, (maybe the KTM Im not sure) your twin is not competitive in A classes and Formula 1. Race your older twin in Vintage 8. Maybe make a vintage twins class that grids with another Vintage class.
 
How about allowing the <1190cc machinery in V8H regardless of year? Seems like it would stack up ok against <2007 Literbikes. 1098's will start being eligible in 2019 and 1125's in 2020 anyway. Seems like V8H may be the more laid back, go to work on monday, type class many HWT guys are looking for.

That would give many folks BSB and V8H as primary classes and A/F1 as step ups.

What about LWT SB guys. HWTSB was their step up for a 3rd race. Let em into CSS? - that would be a little nutty. Maybe V8MW or V7MW?
 
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You
Yokohama said:
I don't have the opportunity to grid up much so please correct me if I'm wrong. I'm not sure what the advantage is of discontinuing the class, because if my recollection is correct, we were almost always gridded up with other classes. Is there a need for track time for some new classes?
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You need to check the Vintage section..........
 
Finally, streamlining the schedule and classes. It's long, long, overdue.

However I do feel for Brian, Kevin and the other HW Twin guys, as casualties.

I do have a soft place for the class, riding the SV in there over the years, as an amateur and as an expert "against" Tray Batey back in the day.
 
I could argue that I am more disappointed about this than most people. In 2016 I won some HWT Regionals Championships in the SE and MC, and won the HWT-SS National Championship at the GNF. Not to mention being about $40k deep into a Twin, that has now likely devalued some. I have had multiple people PM me about buying the 1299S and chasing HWT championships with it.

The HWT classes weren't the largest classes, but there was always some good racing up front. Some of my best memories are in that class and battling with guys like Robby-Bobby, Borello, Tsotsoros, Burcham, Tent, Glidewell, etc.

But with all of that being said, I am all for WERA streamlining the schedule and eliminating some of the classes with low turnouts, if it means the grids improve, and WERA continues to evolve and grow. I don't know how many times I have seen classes with 1-5 bikes on the grid and thought "this track time could be better spent appealing to the masses, rather than making sure every single bike in history has a class to race in. Rather than WERA trying to accommodate that one guy who is still trying to race his 1972 Kawaturdski, that guy should get with the program and accommodate WERA. If he wants to race, he will get a bike legal to race in whatever classes are there".

Well, it isn't fair for me to say that and not apply it to myself and my bike if it is applicable for me also.

So if this is what it takes to give more track time to the popular bill-paying machines, so WERA can put forth an improved product that appeals to the majority...then so be it. I don't necessarily like it, and it kinda aggravates me because it takes away one of my classes. But I have to admit that is just me being selfish and only thinking of my own enjoyment. If eliminating classes with low turnouts will make WERA more appealing to the majority of racers, then I am for it.
 
Chaotic said:
I could argue that I am more disappointed about this than most people. In 2016 I won some HWT Regionals Championships in the SE and MC, and won the HWT-SS National Championship at the GNF. Not to mention being about $40k deep into a Twin, that has now likely devalued some. I have had multiple people PM me about buying the 1299S and chasing HWT championships with it.

The HWT classes weren't the largest classes, but there was always some good racing up front. Some of my best memories are in that class and battling with guys like Robby-Bobby, Borello, Tsotsoros, Burcham, Tent, Glidewell, etc.

But with all of that being said, I am all for WERA streamlining the schedule and eliminating some of the classes with low turnouts, if it means the grids improve, and WERA continues to evolve and grow. I don't know how many times I have seen classes with 1-5 bikes on the grid and thought "this track time could be better spent appealing to the masses, rather than making sure every single bike in history has a class to race in. Rather than WERA trying to accommodate that one guy who is still trying to race his 1972 Kawaturdski, that guy should get with the program and accommodate WERA. If he wants to race, he will get a bike legal to race in whatever classes are there".

Well, it isn't fair for me to say that and not apply it to myself and my bike if it is applicable for me also.

So if this is what it takes to give more track time to the popular bill-paying machines, so WERA can put forth an improved product that appeals to the majority...then so be it. I don't necessarily like it, and it kinda aggravates me because it takes away one of my classes. But I have to admit that is just me being selfish and only thinking of my own enjoyment. If eliminating classes with low turnouts will make WERA more appealing to the majority of racers, then I am for it.
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Agree, I won the HWTSS championship for SE & MC on my 675 last year. I won’t miss racing alone or with only 1-2 other riders such as last year.
 
Chaotic said:
I could argue that I am more disappointed about this than most people. In 2016 I won some HWT Regionals Championships in the SE and MC, and won the HWT-SS National Championship at the GNF. Not to mention being about $40k deep into a Twin, that has now likely devalued some. I have had multiple people PM me about buying the 1299S and chasing HWT championships with it.

The HWT classes weren't the largest classes, but there was always some good racing up front. Some of my best memories are in that class and battling with guys like Robby-Bobby, Borello, Tsotsoros, Burcham, Tent, Glidewell, etc.

But with all of that being said, I am all for WERA streamlining the schedule and eliminating some of the classes with low turnouts, if it means the grids improve, and WERA continues to evolve and grow. I don't know how many times I have seen classes with 1-5 bikes on the grid and thought "this track time could be better spent appealing to the masses, rather than making sure every single bike in history has a class to race in. Rather than WERA trying to accommodate that one guy who is still trying to race his 1972 Kawaturdski, that guy should get with the program and accommodate WERA. If he wants to race, he will get a bike legal to race in whatever classes are there".

Well, it isn't fair for me to say that and not apply it to myself and my bike if it is applicable for me also.

So if this is what it takes to give more track time to the popular bill-paying machines, so WERA can put forth an improved product that appeals to the majority...then so be it. I don't necessarily like it, and it kinda aggravates me because it takes away one of my classes. But I have to admit that is just me being selfish and only thinking of my own enjoyment. If eliminating classes with low turnouts will make WERA more appealing to the majority of racers, then I am for it.
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Shit your 1299 should easily kick ass in ASS,ASB and F1.... HWT use to be won by the youngsters on 125s back when they still raced them. It is overdue for wera to change classes. I don’t remember the last time there was any contingency money in HWT.
 
Mongo said:
You're still only talking one region.

Refusal to listen to what I'm saying and the facts is not shooting anything down nor is it rational.

You're correct on input and not sure what texts have to do with anything. I know what you're input would be, the same as you're posting right now.

And again, I am sorry about the late notice.
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Look, take all regions. The responses here show that there are some dedicated guys for HWT. Just combine for this year as stating this so damn late is unfair. This is a business... You are essentially telling customers tough crap and there are classes for you, good luck. You will lose customers. Plain and simple. But if you simply add the class to a lightly contested B series of races, it increases the grids for one class race. I know you have to spend a few bucks on the trophies, but I will race without any trophies.

If this were earlier, I would have been bummed, but would have maybe built a plan around it for this season. Now we have to run different classes and change the program. Which probably to most means just signing up for different races, but for us, it means more investment into the bike.
 
Maybe it is.
rob linders said:
I know lizard may not like this, but when we were racing I always thought of HWT's as the place, slower guys could try and get a trophy. I don't remember thinking about any other class that way, except age based classes and those made sense to me.

So many make fun of milineals all wanting participation trophies, and that is HWT twins summed up to me.
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I just know that we were supported and still are, by a dealer that makes it's living off V-Twins. Soon V4s will be in the mix, but largely a V-Twin dealership along with many more. HWT showcases those bikes and while I do agree that a lot of the racers are somewhat timid and is a safer area of play vs A or F1 classes, we weren't out there joy riding. I think I will elevate my abilities but am not unaware of the pace at the front of A or F1. I hate that we are ALL lumped into this idea that HWT was a hobby class within a hobby.

Sean thinks this is all about NC. I worked for Ducati and am passionate for the brand. This as shown in some responses impacts the other regions also. Streamlining is needed and while we aren't as bad as say any outdoor MX event with their classes, we can streamline by combining races together. Sure, Nationals I get the idea of time and structure. But regionals aren't Nationals even though National attendance is in the shitter. But if Regionals allowed the HWT in the B Classes, it is a home for those hobby riders and if they want to do Nationals, they HAVE to go a or open which is more of a challenge.

I look at this like a dealership that decides to drop a customer base right at the height of the season and doesn't announce to their base of customers until they drive in for service... It's just last minute and totally could be combined and not impact anyone's time and maintain the entries and avoid alienation of riders that just don't want to compete at the top level. We will race A and open. Have before. I am ready...
 
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