Long Range Shooting Rifle Options

[Dillonjohnson]

I have gotten some really great pricing on Eurooptic. I bought a pair of Sig 6k LRF binos about 2 months ago and I believe they were 500$ off. They were brand new, just wanting to move product. Pretty good CS too. There’s a couple key guys there that know a lot.

 

[speedluvn]

Looked at some used rimfires today. Saw a Steyr Zephyr 2 22 lr. I don't know how accurate they are, but I bet it's a tack driver. Gorgeous walnut stock, free floated barrel, beautiful bluing. Very comfortable, well balanced. I kinda fell in lust with it. Would make an awesome squirrel slayer.
To those of you who reload, at what point does it make economic sense to start doing it? With such good factory ammo available I imagine I'll have to be shooting a lot of 6.5 CM to make it worthwhile.

If you're shooting 6.5, you can "tailor" the round to your rifle. So you could certainly provide similar or better reloads than factory cheaper. Brass prep is part of the reloading equation especially for rifle rounds. With a non progressive reloading press, you could start for around 600 bucks or so. That would include equipment such as a Lee Turret press, a pound of powder, a brick (1000) of large rifle primers and at least 50 projectiles and other incidentals. You should have or can obtain expended brass. I reload for every caliber I shoot to include shotgun.

To me its fascinating to learn about ballistics and tweaking rounds to extract improved performance from your loads. Reloading in itself is another hobby for me.

 

[Dillonjohnson]

If you're shooting 6.5, you can "tailor" the round to your rifle. So you could certainly provide similar or better reloads than factory cheaper. Brass prep is part of the reloading equation especially for rifle rounds. With a non progressive reloading press, you could start for around 600 bucks or so. That would include equipment such as a Lee Turret press, a pound of powder, a brick (1000) of large rifle primers and at least 50 projectiles and other incidentals. You should have or can obtain expended brass. I reload for every caliber I shoot to include shotgun.

To me its fascinating to learn about ballistics and tweaking rounds to extract improved performance from your loads. Reloading in itself is another hobby for me.

I would agree that reloading is entirely a separate hobby. If you don't enjoy tinkering, you'll probably hate it.

 

[socalrider]

What is the brain trust's opinion on building an AR in 6mm ARC? I've got a lower waiting for some kind of project.

Already have a standard 556/223, 300blk, this would be for longer range, maybe hunting but probably just target shooting. All my hunting prospects coming up are big game or my yearly dove trip.

 

[Rhino48]

What is the brain trust's opinion on building an AR in 6mm ARC? I've got a lower waiting for some kind of project.

Already have a standard 556/223, 300blk, this would be for longer range, maybe hunting but probably just target shooting. All my hunting prospects coming up are big game or my yearly dove trip.

I don't have a 6 ARC, but from my experience with the 6.5 Grendel, you can make a really good, reliable, accurate AR with that basic case. I don't think they really achieve the hyped level of performance but they do pretty well regardless. It could be a fun target rifle with a bit better long range hunting capability on lighter "big-game", but I'd go with 18" minimum barrel. I've had 2 barrels from low to mid quality spectrum, both will shoot 1/2MOA with their preferred bullets.

I'd be careful what you try to kill with it, the longer bullets in the small diameters might not get to reliable expansion velocities. My 6.5 grendel went through a white-tail like a dart. It didn't even flinch, i didn't even think I hit it until I saw it snort out a cloud of blood while I was lining up the second shot. it looked around, a bit, then just died. I'd imagine the 6mm could be even more prone to that based on my experience with .243.

 

[kenessex]

My 6.5 grendel went through a white-tail like a dart. It didn't even flinch, i didn't even think I hit it until I saw it snort out a cloud of blood

Since we are talking about reloading, too. This scenario would have me wondering about bullet performance. I think so many people look to the premium bullets for hunting, the may overlook the fact that the bullets which work well for hot cartridges may be overly stout for thin skinned game with lower powered rounds. In the 6.5 I have had great hunting performance out of the Hornady 129gr Interlock. A standard construction hunting bullet that has worked well on deer sized animals at 6.5x55 and 6.5 JDJ velocities. It is what I loaded in my 6.5 CM at moderate velocity for deer hunting.

 

[speedluvn]

I don't have a 6 ARC, but from my experience with the 6.5 Grendel, you can make a really good, reliable, accurate AR with that basic case. I don't think they really achieve the hyped level of performance but they do pretty well regardless. It could be a fun target rifle with a bit better long range hunting capability on lighter "big-game", but I'd go with 18" minimum barrel. I've had 2 barrels from low to mid quality spectrum, both will shoot 1/2MOA with their preferred bullets.

I'd be careful what you try to kill with it, the longer bullets in the small diameters might not get to reliable expansion velocities. My 6.5 grendel went through a white-tail like a dart. It didn't even flinch, i didn't even think I hit it until I saw it snort out a cloud of blood while I was lining up the second shot. it looked around, a bit, then just died. I'd imagine the 6mm could be even more prone to that based on my experience with .243.

I'm curious as to what bullet was used?

 

[redtailracing]

So what is it about Vortex optics that cause people to hate on them? I see a lot of hate but no one ever really explaining why. I love my Razor 3-18. Been plenty happy with my monocular. Have a strike eagle that's just my kinda toss around optic, confirm zero on other optics if I fear there's an issue, throw on new guns until I pickup a permanent optic for them, and it's been perfectly fine for that. Only one I don't love is the diamondback on my wife's .22. Glass quality is pretty subpar but for the cost, I'm not sure it's realistic to expect much better.

 

[redtailracing]

Also, you guys that shoot long distance and are dialing - this is probably a dumb question but what do you do about frequently changing wind? I'm still learning a lot but I feel like the time it takes to dial windage just leaves opportunity for it to continue changing. But I know most expert distance shooters do actually dial so I'm just trying to figure out the strategy.

I've been in the opposite boat as some of you where I really like Christmas tress (H59, EBR-2C, Tremor3, etc.) and have gotten used to just holding. The clutter honestly doesn't bother me. When I'm running 3 gun, we're not necessarily shooting REAL distance but 600 yards with 5.56 does still require some holds and feels a lot faster to hold than dial. And at low power for the closer stuff, I found it pretty easy to ignore the tree and only pick up the crosshairs.

 

[Rhino48]

I'm curious as to what bullet was used?

Yeah....it wasn't the right bullet for the job - a 123gr SMK. I was shooting yotes with those, and forgot to change ammo. I think the traditional heavier (high BC) thick jacket hunting bullets in the 6.5 are the wrong choice for that cartridge specifically, so my point being i'd watch for that in the 6ARC as well.

129 Interlock seem to deform heavily for the first third, then stay together even at the lower Grendel velocities, so yes, all my deer hunting ammo is now loaded with that. Haven't shot one with it since, though.

 

[socalrider]

thanks @Rhino48 im out west and currently applying for elk and muley in a few states, so i will keep my 308 as my hunting rifle.

just need something interesting for this lower. i could go grendel instead of 6 ARC, but ive seen some cool 6ARC builds. 18", 1-7.5 twist seems to be capable at distance on that round from what ive read.

 

[gt#179]

What is the brain trust's opinion on building an AR in 6mm ARC? I've got a lower waiting for some kind of project.

Already have a standard 556/223, 300blk, this would be for longer range, maybe hunting but probably just target shooting. All my hunting prospects coming up are big game or my yearly dove trip.

do you handload your ammo? if you do, check out the 6 MAX. but yes the 6 ARC is a pretty nice round and a great paper puncher in an AR platform. Lots of good ammo, brass, components.

As for the dial for windage (*I'm just getting into longer range stuff*) seems that most are dialing for distance/elevation and holding for wind.

 

[Dillonjohnson]

Also, you guys that shoot long distance and are dialing - this is probably a dumb question but what do you do about frequently changing wind? I'm still learning a lot but I feel like the time it takes to dial windage just leaves opportunity for it to continue changing. But I know most expert distance shooters do actually dial so I'm just trying to figure out the strategy.

I've been in the opposite boat as some of you where I really like Christmas tress (H59, EBR-2C, Tremor3, etc.) and have gotten used to just holding. The clutter honestly doesn't bother me. When I'm running 3 gun, we're not necessarily shooting REAL distance but 600 yards with 5.56 does still require some holds and feels a lot faster to hold than dial. And at low power for the closer stuff, I found it pretty easy to ignore the tree and only pick up the crosshairs.

Im far from expert, but something about just keeping that center dot on target where i want always feels better to me. For some reason in my head i always feel like im thinking harder to hold then i am to twist the turret. It probably just a mental thing. If the wind is changing a lot, and you're shooting longer ranges 1000+ its almost a guessing game because the wind where your firing is most likely different than it is at the target, and the wind at the upper arc of the trajectory is also going to be different. If its really windly like that, i just stay home LOL.

The vortex stuff i have seen more failures with not holding zero and stuff like that, but vortex probably also sells a lot more optics, so the failure rate may be the same %. Id still buy them. Buddy of mine just bought a 5-25 PST gen2. Seems pretty solid, and the glass is pretty good. Turrets feel nice too.

 

[socalrider]

do you handload your ammo? if you do, check out the 6 MAX. but yes the 6 ARC is a pretty nice round and a great paper puncher in an AR platform. Lots of good ammo, brass, components.

As for the dial for windage (*I'm just getting into longer range stuff*) seems that most are dialing for distance/elevation and holding for wind.

i hand load my long range 308 (not my hunting rounds) and i hand load subsonic 300blk for fun. so i certainly have the components i need to add another cartridge to the stable, just need dies etc.

 

[CB186]

Also, you guys that shoot long distance and are dialing - this is probably a dumb question but what do you do about frequently changing wind? I'm still learning a lot but I feel like the time it takes to dial windage just leaves opportunity for it to continue changing. But I know most expert distance shooters do actually dial so I'm just trying to figure out the strategy.

I've been in the opposite boat as some of you where I really like Christmas tress (H59, EBR-2C, Tremor3, etc.) and have gotten used to just holding. The clutter honestly doesn't bother me. When I'm running 3 gun, we're not necessarily shooting REAL distance but 600 yards with 5.56 does still require some holds and feels a lot faster to hold than dial. And at low power for the closer stuff, I found it pretty easy to ignore the tree and only pick up the crosshairs.

Reading the wind is the hardest part of long range shooting, assuming your shooting of of a rest(not slung up/irons).
Hitting 1-1.5 moa targets at distance on a calm or consistent day is really pretty easy. I deal with guys every week that have absolutely no clue on what do do about wind, and will never learn.

 

[DaveB]

I would agree that reloading is entirely a separate hobby. If you don't enjoy tinkering, you'll probably hate it.

And if you enjoy tinkering then you end up going down the rabbit hole of "Wow, that looks like a really cool tool to have to make things easier/quicker/more precise (read it's cool and I want it!)" and you buy more and more stuff . I just ordered a Henderson Gen3 trimmer today so I know all about that. But it's still cheaper than racing, at least for me.

 

[Dillonjohnson]

And if you enjoy tinkering then you end up going down the rabbit hole of "Wow, that looks like a really cool tool to have to make things easier/quicker/more precise (read it's cool and I want it!)" and you buy more and more stuff . I just ordered a Henderson Gen3 trimmer today so I know all about that. But it's still cheaper than racing, at least for me.

Dude the henderson is so sweet. The owner is cool too, talked to him for like 45 minutes prior to buying one. Super knowledgable and helpful. Just make sure he's still sending it out with an assortment of stop bolts, so changing calibers you dont have to adjust trim length every time unless you had to. Oh, and the shavings containment bin thing is a nice add on.

 

[DaveB]

Dude the henderson is so sweet. The owner is cool too, talked to him for like 45 minutes prior to buying one. Super knowledgable and helpful. Just make sure he's still sending it out with an assortment of stop bolts, so changing calibers you dont have to adjust trim length every time unless you had to. Oh, and the shavings containment bin thing is a nice add on.

I researched the heck out of it before I ordered one, didn't talk to him but knew I wanted one. It does say in the description on his site it comes with adjustment "screws" in plural so I'm sure it does, also they aren't special bolts so easy to source additional locally. Yeah, the add on bin was definitely ordered. Getting the cutters for 22, 6.5 and 30 to cover what I need now.

 

[skidooboy]

So what is it about Vortex optics that cause people to hate on them? I see a lot of hate but no one ever really explaining why. I love my Razor 3-18. Been plenty happy with my monocular. Have a strike eagle that's just my kinda toss around optic, confirm zero on other optics if I fear there's an issue, throw on new guns until I pickup a permanent optic for them, and it's been perfectly fine for that. Only one I don't love is the diamondback on my wife's .22. Glass quality is pretty subpar but for the cost, I'm not sure it's realistic to expect much better.

Lots of internal failures, losing zero, wont track, small bumps knock them out of whack. Yes they have a lifetime warranty but, hear guys saying they sent this scope, or that scope back, 2 and 3 times... Nope, I dont even want to think about that. Could you imagine spending 5-10000 on a hunt of a lifetime, or on the last shooting end at a competition, and have the scope fail?... Yeah, me too. I'm out.

I had one on my .350 legend, was a tack driver at the range. First day of deer season, I had the gun leaning against the tree while climbing down from my stand, it slid and fell in soft swamp ground on a pile of leaves. I never thought twice it would have changed the point of impact, or I would have went to the range, to verify. 2 days later, I missed a buck at 80 yards. Back to the range, shot 4 inches high, 4 left. Took the scope off, threw it in the trash (seriously) and bought a Burris Signature HD.

Again, this is just one persons observation and there are horror stories from all scope mfgrs. I have just opted to avoid Vortex for scopes. Now I do love my new Vortex laser range finder. So not totally anti Vortex either. Ski

 

[groundhogday]

Are MDT polymer AICS mags good? If I deer hunt with this rifle I'd like to have a 3 round mag so it'll be closer to flush and hopefully less rattley than the 5 round PMAGs.