I need a new handgun...lets talk guns today. :D

My gut feeling is that incident will end up unrelated to the absolute onslaught of other data. Won't be surprised at all if it was a personal grudge.

 

I see fault on both sides here.

The P320 is a problem and Sig won’t own it probably because of all the military and LEO contracts tied to it.

As to the individual Airman, my understanding is he took off his belt and laid it on a table or something to that effect. So why would he not clear the pistol as well as ensure the barrel was not pointed at him? No matter what he was carrying that should be considered firearm doctrine.

 

Last night some friends told me there was an arrest made connected with that shooting. Hopefully with a little more time we get the real story.

 

An arrest?? Damn!

 

Yeah…I heard something to that effect as well, so maybe the information we were discussing at my indoor match regarding the happenings were false….it happens.
This will be even more interesting as this all unfolds.

 

Welp, it sorta pains me to say…….well only a little, but I’ve gone through 1,200-ish rounds fairly evenly between the first zpap and the psa gf3, over the past couple weekends. I actually like the psa more. It shoots smoother and more consistent. Substantially less gas blow back in the face running suppressed. All ammo used is non corrosive, but the zastava still keeps rusting to an angering/disappointing degree if I leave it a day or two. Nothing on the palmetto. Haven’t run the new zpap yet. Might just leave it boxed up for that import price hike F*ck…….i was never so happy to get that zastava since fleeing Maryland. But damn all psa love/hate aside………I seriously love my gf3 after running them a lot back to back every couple of days. The end

 

A man charged with involuntary manslaughter, obstruction and falsifying statements to the police….

Alotta mud on anti-sig fanboys faces after this news came out

https://www.military.com/daily-news...rearm-death-of-airman-prompted-m18-probe.html

 

ive been following the 320 drama….So far, no internet or YT expert or gunsmith has been able to recreate a UD without pulling the trigger

Pretty much every case of UD’s have been debunked

 

Has the Wyoming Gun Project video been proven false? I watched that and the video is crazy IF REAL.

I haven't followed this Sig drama much at all other than here and a few group texts or WhatsApp groups I'm in with LEO's and Military folks so sure you guys have more info.
Maybe that video has been discussed here already...

 

The Wyoming Gun video where he loads the trigger by putting a screw in it and then manipulates the slide and it fires?....and yes...There's a video from TRIGGERSMART on YT that does the same 'experiment' with 15 other striker fired guns and they ALL failed (if you want to call it a failure) using WGP's testing method.

Garand Thumb also did a drop test video of 10+ guns and the 320 was fine even after dropping it from 15' vs chest high drops for the other guns....The 2011's he tested , Staccato and $5k 2011, DID go off when drop tested.

I realize it's only (1) 320 that Garand drop tested out of the 6,000,000 sold/issued worldwide.

 

I did see the Grand Thumb video. Scary as hell watching the 2011's go off.

I figured there had to be something with the WGP video but never gave a P320 a thought so I never dug deeper. The Sig I was issued was a beautiful gun but from of all the issued weapons I had to carry the Sig would be the last brand I would choose (issued several Beretta and Glock prior to the Sig)

 

I don't know enough about the 320 drama to comment.

I haven't watched the dude's videos on the 1911/2011 drop test. However, there are two designs that have been used when it comes to 1911/2011 trigger control group. The series 70 design does NOT have a firing pin stop/plunger. The series 80 design does. The series 80 design effectively has a lever that is moved to release the firing pin and allow the firing pin to move past the breach face. A 70 series can fail a drop test, and is known to have this issue, because if a 70 series is dropped muzzle down it can discharge unintentionally. Just adding this as reference since this 70 versus 80 series design difference is known and debated in the 1911/2011 community.

Edit: my point was, most competition and high end 2011 handguns use the series 70 design b/c they are believed to have a better trigger (b/c fewer parts) than the series 80. Stacattos historically are among that crowd as are most high end 2011 handguns and clones of high end 2011 handguns like my MAC 9DS.

 

Many people are still in denial the P320 has any problem.

I'm old enough to remember Glock and other .40 cals going kaboom when that caliber first became popular. As I recall it was ammo related. But imo and a lot of other people it doesn't absolve Glock. Early .40 cals were built on 9mm frames resulting in many cracked frames and kabooms. S&W was guilty as well. Nowadays .40 cals are all overbuilt.

The P320 problems are developing on a similar fashion. Even if the AD's are human caused, it does not mean the gun doesn't have a fundamental problem.

 

Oh, man, that sucks. You sure it isn't the brown goop/cosmoline-type stuff they put on the guns from the factory? I read your post and immediately went and checked mine as I do not clean guns very often. Hope that works out.

I've heard multiple people say that they run their PSA AK hard, put it away wet, and have nothing but good things to say. My next PSA purchase will either be a 104 or a LH upper in 300.

 

All correct. The new Staccato P4s have a series 80 trigger. I’m sure that was so they met LEO contract requirements. They use a Glock style magazine and can use Glock magazines as well.

As much as I absolutely love my 2011s. The triggers are way too light for my taste to issue to Leo’s. I think you want a bit more resistance to give a “are you sure you want to do this”? A 5 pound pull is probably ideal in my opinion for duty use.

 

Yeah, I’ve cleaned/lubed it multiple times now. All the AKs get stored together, and the #1 zpap is the only one doing this. Haven’t even cleaned the new Z, but it’s together with the rest and rust free……however it’s still unfired. Giving this more thought, I’m wondering if I might have still had some corrosive ammonia in the earlier run mags that were sitting around. Thought I ran through everything corrosive……but maybe not. Going to just water flush it tonight, relube and see what it does. And yes admittedly I do run the psa hard, dirty and throw it off to the side, so to speak. So far just keeps on ticking. No abnormal wear, rivets look great, and I’m confident it would drop a buck humanely if need be. As for the psa 104, zero complaints thus far, but at this point even though it was my personal first AK, it’s now been used the least. But it’s been 100% besides after the first couple hundred rounds, the trigger wouldn’t reset. But it turned out to be the ALG spring was too long on the legs of it, as it was catching on the bottom of the receiver, and it just needed to be snipped off about 1/16”. So that’s really on me and the alg spring

 

That's what I assumed. I started to watch Engineer's Armory video on the disassembly of the P4 and holy moly what a complicated gun.

So many springs and redundant assemblies. I guess the thinking was to make more parts serviceable or failure proof, but it is really complicated. Have you taken one apart yet?

From my limited experience, I think 2lbs triggers are inappropriate for most folks outside of competitive shooters who use that platform day-in and day-out. I think even a 3lbs trigger for recreational shooters is bordering on too light. 4-5 lbs seems reasonable. I also think most shooters conflate light trigger = "good" trigger. Where that is not a 1:1 relationship. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for a 15lbs trigger like the OG Glocks. Just sayin' that trigger weight is overhyped versus the mechanical fidelity of the trigger. IMHO.

 

No. I have not taken one apart, yet. But, I have shot one at Staccato Ranch in Austin this past March. We were there for MotoGP and came a day early for "Fun Day Gun Day" and went there and to Hayes Customs (https://hayescustomguns.com/ and they have a youtube channel).

Three of us shot the P4 and all 3 of us really liked it. Since I already have 4 of their P4 magazines, I'm sure at some point I'll trip and fall and one will magically find it's way into my safe (Probably a blemished model).

On the topic of triggers, you are completely correct. Outside of a match a 2 pound trigger is inappropriate. In fact, I'm more than happy to let people try whatever I have with me at the range on any given visit, but I make sure to advise them that they are sure they want it to go bang before they put their finger in the trigger guard.
And light isn't equal to good or great. It's just light. Doesn't mean it has a finely tuned travel, wall, break or reset. Not at all. But, if you get those and it's at 2 pounds...the break is like a glass rod busting.....it's OH so satisfying.

I'm nowhere near even a good shooter...maybe decent. But I can still enjoy my collection and work on myself as a shooter. Just like I own a Panigale V4S. I'll never be able to ride one like Pecco or MM93 can, but I can still appreciate the engineering that goes into them and the way it feels to ride such a fine achievement in motorcycle history.

 

I posted some Sig P320 items (threaded barrels and magazines) in the classifieds under "OTHER"
LINK

Free shipping

 

Save your mags for the OA Defense 2311 Sig rebranded their P211