Dealer fees. Whats acceptable?

418 said:
I don't know how it is now in ther industry but when I was in it in the 2000's dealers got paid for the PDI and got a kick back for shipping.

Dealers soon will compain that nobody buys bikes anymore. Well no shit. You're fucking your customers.
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They are just trying to keep up with the auto dealer shenanigans. DOC fees (and other retarded ones they come up with) should be banned period. Fucking Nissan/Subaru/Kia dealer here has "mandatory add ons" and they wont budge. Even tried to tell me that their "$400 "passive anti theft" add on is required by law. Its just fucking etching the vin in the glass.
 
418 said:
How is that change the fact that being transparent is still a good business practice?

Just post a OTD price and let people decide. Not this bait and switch shit.

$18K MSRP and $24K OTD? Fuck off.
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We did that for 50 years, and closed the doors in 2015.
 
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OTD is the only number that matters. That’s what you negotiate from. Any dealer that won’t quote a number “what do I bring a check for and leave with the bike” should not be dealt with. Any dealer who conflates that number with how you pay (cash or finance) should not be dealt with.
It’s really simple. If you don’t think the purchase is worth the fees, offer to purchase the bike for a number less the fees. If the dealer doesn’t do it don’t buy the bike. The best way to get the best price is to offer to buy the bike rather than ask “what’s you best price”
40 years of auto & M/C retail management perspective.
 
WillMill said:
For some dealers, thats where the negotiations come in. I had cash in hand one day, on my way to a dealership a few hours away, because I got quoted an OTD price that was hard to beat. Stopped in at my local dealership before I left. They had the same bike on their floor. I told them the quoted price at the other dealership, said I had the cash in my pocket, and if they could match, or come close enough to make it worth my while to not drive to the other dealer, that I would buy from them. They didn’t even hesitate, and dropped all tho extra fees. That bike did happen to be sitting on the floor for longer than they wanted, and were probably just happy to get rid of it. But.. moral of the story, if you are a serious buyer, it never hurts to ask.
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just to clarify, they don’t care at all about it being cash (they make more profit if you finance usually, cash is more work than anything) they just needed to move the bike because dealers spend more everyday it sits on the floor
 
Bring them the cheapest Credit Union rate you can find and say you're a member. Tell them to beat that number and get "some" free money (interest), or you can go get a check and they can get "no" free money (they always want free money). If you know how long something has been sitting the better, leverage it. Tell them to fuck off with the fees. Pay a reasonable doc fee, which should be a couple hundred, not the $1500 bullshit dealerships had been trying to do all of COVID. unless you're buying a collector's bike of your dreams that's rare and special, always be ready to walk. no OEM new KTM bike is special, and the market isn't turning around to their favor, if anything getting worse. Credit card balances way up, credit card defaults way up, jobs market slowing down, inflation creeping... next year ain't gonna be easier for them, so wait em' out.
 
AndrewG725 said:
just to clarify, they don’t care at all about it being cash (they make more profit if you finance usually, cash is more work than anything) they just needed to move the bike because dealers spend more everyday it sits on the floor
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I totally understand that. But there is always the fact that I was guaranteed to buy it. I wasn’t coming in wanting something, and then having them go through the work only to find out that I can’t get financing. I dealt directly with the owner of the dealership, and he informed me how many people commit to a purchase, only to find out that they can’t get financing.
 
Say I want to go buy an R9 or an RC 990 in March. Am I just going to be stuck paying outrageous dealer fees, or is there a strategy I can follow?
 
Martin Lewis said:
Say I want to go buy an R9 or an RC 990 in March. Am I just going to be stuck paying outrageous dealer fees, or is there a strategy I can follow?
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it’s all supply and demand. If they’re selling hot and people are willing to pay full fees then you’ll have to as well. If they have a bike sitting and not selling then you’ll can negotiate. It’s like any other item.
 
Gosh, ya'll sound like a bunch of communists! It is just capitalism, and supply and demand. The dealers' goal is to make money, and the more, the better for them. It isn't a question of "fair"or reasonable"; they simply charge what they think the market will bear. Doesn't everyone? Your goal is to be smarter and to get the dealer's price as low as you can, and then decide if it is worth it to you.
 
nowayout said:
Was looking at the "looking for a new bike" thread and I am presently shopping for a KTM Duke 790 that is priced on the dealer site for $6499 plus fees. After talking to the dealer they gave me an OTD without tax for the ridiculous price of $8194+ tax

I want to know what you guys think is acceptable. For me $1695 in fees is shocking
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2024 or 2025 ? Where you located!
 
Michael Hausknecht said:
Gosh, ya'll sound like a bunch of communists! It is just capitalism, and supply and demand. The dealers' goal is to make money, and the more, the better for them. It isn't a question of "fair"or reasonable"; they simply charge what they think the market will bear. Doesn't everyone? Your goal is to be smarter and to get the dealer's price as low as you can, and then decide if it is worth it to you.
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Reading comprehension is essential. Nobody is saying the dealer shouldn't make money, bait and switch is what the problem is. Nobody wants to walk into a showroom and realize the advertised price on the bike is 30% lower than the actual OTD price because of "fees". This isn't capitalism, it's greed preying on unsuspecting customers. I'm sure you'd love to walk out of a dealership paying 25% over retail just so you can think to yourself "at least I'm not a commie!". What a werid ass take on the issue.

BTW, I'm currently looking at a new vehicle. Both Carmax and Carvana have the OTD posted with a click of a button. Werid shit huh? You can sit there and compare the deals without needing to figure out what kind of fucking the sales guy is going to put on you. That's capitalism. The best price and service wins.

But according to your theory God forbid a customer walks into a deal with eyes wide open.
 
In March of 2023 I purchased a GSX-S1000GT+ at a dealership about 4 hours from my house. Those bikes were selling out almost as soon as they came into the dealership and many of the dealerships were full MSRP plus fees of freight/setup/doc/etc. Between the 2022 model and the 2023 model, the MSRP went up $700. I saw the bike online at their dealership and called them because they had it advertised for sale at the 2022 pricing. They confirmed that they were selling it at the 2022 MSRP pricing and the ONLY fees were $199 doc fees. Of course that does NOT include sales tax/registration. I put a deposit on it while still on the phone with the salesman and made arrangements to pick it up a couple of days later.

So the bottom line here is that they sold it to me for the 2022 MSRP pricing which was $700 less than almost every other dealer out there was selling the 2023 models for...AND...they were true to their word about NO other fees than the $199 Doc fee. Since I was from out of state from the dealership, they provided me with a temp plate and all the paperwork needed to take it home and then do the sales tax and license/registration in the state where I live. All total, counting the 2022 pricing instead of the 2023 pricing ($700), freight ~ $600, and the dealer prep ~$350 or so...I figure I save around $1600 buying it there instead of the local Suzuki dealership(s). A hundred bucks worth of diesel fuel in the truck and 8 - 9 hours of my time travelling both ways and a sales experience that was smooth, friendly, easy, and didn't feel like I was getting my knickers pulled down around my ankles.

The dealership was excellent and about 6 weeks later we went back there and my wife purchased a new bike from them......same scenario basically, except that they didn't drop from 2023 to 2022 pricing, but they did discount the bike off of the MSRP pricing and only the $199 Doc fees. Fast forward to this year and she decided she wanted a bigger bike. We made the trip again and traded in her 2023 Z400 for a 2024 Z650.....same dealership, same salesman, same great experience and we are both happy.
 
There's a balance that no one is mentioning.

Yes, having every dealer list OTD prices would be great in a hypothetical sense. One main cause of the cyclical hidden fee scheme is customers themselves want the cheaper price instead of the fair price. If one dealer advertises a lower prices, the customer goes there (and gets dealt those special hidden fees later when they're already committed to buying). If you're a dealer not participating in that scheme, you miss all those sales and also get inundated with customers asking you to match the other dealers' low prices. You can then participate in the scheme and do the same hidden fees or lose business / close your business.

Alternatively, customer service, and vehicle service can be an avenue for more legitimate dealers to recover some lost business. Providing a good experience has value, but that value also seems to be diminishing compared to saving a dollar. Beyond that, going the extra mile to find difficult parts, provide clear communication, and prompt service can win over a few customers. A majority out there are more interested in saving a dollar though, so it's tough. There's plenty of other threads and even in this thread about people talking about where they can get the cheapest price (again, not the fair price, but how can they save more money). I don't blame them, but they're also complicit in the existence of the shady hidden fee scheme that has developed around their excessive demands to feel like they're getting a deal.
 
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