2024 Daytona 200 aka Big D

[Dan Dubeau]

I hope you make a complete and full recovery Alex, Pretty shitty situation. I think any decent Human would at least reach out and see how you were doing. I couldn't imagine hitting a fellow racer on the track and at least not stopping by the pits, or reaching out afterwards to check on them.

 

[KneeDragger_c69]

Let's get one thing straight, I never blamed the guy for running me over. Could he or not avoid me... that up to each one to make their own call (for me he could of) but fixation is so terrible and anyone can get it, which seems to be what happen to him.

I put blame/anger on his lack of sportsmanship, not trying to ever get a hold of me. It is easy to find any racer at Moto America or any other association.just go see a Stuart and bam !!!

And to say and imply that I should of not crashed or open throttle while being on a hot track, that is just plain stupid. Or worse, that I should of crawled off track. Lucky I didn't, or else, someone else would of taken my head off !

Track was hot for Q1. It was the 2nd lap !

Really surprised of Melka's comment as I was of David Sadowski Jr. little tantrum on my post.

FYI, if the dickless Jorge would of stepped up to talk to me, I would have never put any blame on him for my broken leg. It's a race incident and I'm VERY AWARE of that.

 

[27]

Let's get one thing straight, I never blamed the guy for running me over. Could he or not avoid me... that up to each one to make their own call (for me he could of) but fixation is so terrible and anyone can get it, which seems to be what happen to him.

I put blame/anger on his lack of sportsmanship, not trying to ever get a hold of me. It is easy to find any racer at Moto America or any other association.just go see a Stuart and bam !!!

And to say and imply that I should of not crashed or open throttle while being on a hit track, that is just plain stupid.

Track was hot for Q1. It was the 2nd lap !

Really surprised of Melka's comment as I was of David Sadowski Jr. little tantrum on my post.

FYI, if the sickness Jorge would of stepped up to talk to me, I would have never put any blame on him for my broken leg. It's a race incident and I'm VERY AWARE of that.

Alex, with all best intentions… don’t let it eat at you… you need your energies and positivity to heal those bones and get back to yourself.

As I said, I’ve been run over lots of times by lots of guys and the good ones will check on you… or many times catch up with you at a following event as most times they crashed too from running over me, or had some issues, or needed to come to grips with their emotions of the impact worrying about “what ifs”

The one that ran over my crotch had literally become a friend and was still scared to tell me it was him… until I got the pictures and asked him which one of them hit me first… he fessed up before I showed him the pic of his tire on my junk… and it was complete target fixation as I was in the lead and sliding on my back in the grass when he hit me… we’re still friends… he’s still a squirrel but not all people are wired the same unfortunately. No excuse, just an observation from a crashing/racing old schooler… damn… I’ll go shop for a vintage bike now…

You didn’t answer… were you unconscious? Just curious as it looked like it and I was just trying to figure it all out. I certainly don’t think he saw you and it happens unfortunately as some are better than others at situational awareness and reacting

 

[KneeDragger_c69]

Alex, with all best intentions… don’t let it eat at you… you need your energies and positivity to heal those bones and get back to yourself.

As I said, I’ve been run over lots of times by lots of guys and the good ones will check on you… or many times catch up with you at a following event as most times they crashed too from running over me, or had some issues, or needed to come to grips with their emotions of the impact worrying about “what ifs”

The one that ran over my crotch had literally become a friend and was still scared to tell me it was him… until I got the pictures and asked him which one of them hit me first… he fessed up before I showed him the pic of his tire on my junk… and it was complete target fixation as I was in the lead and sliding on my back in the grass when he hit me… we’re still friends… he’s still a squirrel but not all people are wired the same unfortunately. No excuse, just an observation from a crashing/racing old schooler… damn… I’ll go shop for a vintage bike now…

You didn’t answer… were you unconscious? Just curious as it looked like it and I was just trying to figure it all out. I certainly don’t think he saw you and it happens unfortunately as some are better than others at situational awareness and reacting

Yes I was conscious through it all but my body couldn't move. Trauma, shock... whatever it was, I wasn't able to get up. Just curdled up in a little ball in hopes not to get my limps hit.

So I did feel the impact, and God did I wish I was unconscious cause it felt like a lava explosion in both legs.

No hate towards him now... Just disappointment

I have hit guys, bumped and always (3 times did this happen) I went and excused myself. Yes tempers will flaire but I'm calm enough to knock them out ! After all, I feel I was to blame. And the other 2, the guys were chill and were fiends... right @Gino230

 

[Rdrace42]

Expectations of other people's behavior can be a sketchy thing. Having an expectation of someone doing the 'right' thing, requires everyone to agree what the right thing is, and everyone having the ability to follow through with it. Sounds simple, but it isn't. I had my head run over at IRP by Ken Davis back in '85, during a C Prod race. First lap, I was running 2nd and went inside Doug Gere at T8 (or 9 depending on how you count there), and he closed the line and took out my front wheel. Totally my fault, as I went for a hole that I should have known was going to close. I remember diving in, and then nothing until I woke up in the meat wagon on the way to Methodist. When I fell, I slid feet first, and Ken had nowhere to go (from what I heard), and hit me dead center on the top of my helmet. I was unconscious at that point, but others filled in the gaps on what happened. Ken rode over the top of me, broke my nose, separated my right shoulder, broke 8 ribs on the right side, right elbow, right knee, and a vertical hairline fracture on my tib. He fell and was clipped by 4th place, and badly broke his leg (I think his femur). We knew each other well, and neither of us spoke about it till the end of the season. I felt bad for causing the situation, and he felt like he should have been able to avoid me (totally impossible from what I heard). Was I wrong for not apologizing? Probably, but I was mortified at my own stupidity. Should he have apologized for running me over? I didn't think so, but he did. Hopefully he had empathy for me not having the nuts to talk to him about it, and I certainly have empathy for his situation.

 

[27]

Expectations of other people's behavior can be a sketchy thing. Having an expectation of someone doing the 'right' thing, requires everyone to agree what the right thing is, and everyone having the ability to follow through with it. Sounds simple, but it isn't. I had my head run over at IRP by Ken Davis back in '85, during a C Prod race. First lap, I was running 2nd and went inside Doug Gere at T8 (or 9 depending on how you count there), and he closed the line and took out my front wheel. Totally my fault, as I went for a hole that I should have known was going to close. I remember diving in, and then nothing until I woke up in the meat wagon on the way to Methodist. When I fell, I slid feet first, and Ken had nowhere to go (from what I heard), and hit me dead center on the top of my helmet. I was unconscious at that point, but others filled in the gaps on what happened. Ken rode over the top of me, broke my nose, separated my right shoulder, broke 8 ribs on the right side, right elbow, right knee, and a vertical hairline fracture on my tib. He fell and was clipped by 4th place, and badly broke his leg (I think his femur). We knew each other well, and neither of us spoke about it till the end of the season. I felt bad for causing the situation, and he felt like he should have been able to avoid me (totally impossible from what I heard). Was I wrong for not apologizing? Probably, but I was mortified at my own stupidity. Should he have apologized for running me over? I didn't think so, but he did. Hopefully he had empathy for me not having the nuts to talk to him about it, and I certainly have empathy for his situation.

Great words… that’s a wonderful explanation of what I meant by not everyone is wired the same… you should’ve been an instructor or something

glad you made it back in time for my riders school, the racing world is better for it

 

[Rdrace42]

Great words… that’s a wonderful explanation of what I meant by not everyone is wired the same… you should’ve been an instructor or something

glad you made it back in time for my riders school, the racing world is better for it

Well, I made a lot of stupid mistakes. I did my best to try and provide enough info for the new riders, that they could hopefully minimize them. I found that people who had natural ability, found it much harder to absorb or give credence to the information I was trying to provide.

BTW, I almost didn't make it back. I was unconscious for an hour minimum, which I'm sure you know how bad that can be. Honestly, I don't know that I was ever fully right after that. It took me a few races before I recovered enough to come back, but by then I had lost my sponsors. I struggled to get back to where I was before the accident, and I'm grateful for having had the opportunity to teach the Riders School, as it forced me to actually learn HOW I was doing what I was doing. I think I became a much better rider after that, learning to ride with a plan and an understanding, rather than just by throwing caution to the wind. I still thank the late Dave Essex for that opportunity.

 

[KneeDragger_c69]

Expectations of other people's behavior can be a sketchy thing. Having an expectation of someone doing the 'right' thing, requires everyone to agree what the right thing is, and everyone having the ability to follow through with it. Sounds simple, but it isn't. I had my head run over at IRP by Ken Davis back in '85, during a C Prod race. First lap, I was running 2nd and went inside Doug Gere at T8 (or 9 depending on how you count there), and he closed the line and took out my front wheel. Totally my fault, as I went for a hole that I should have known was going to close. I remember diving in, and then nothing until I woke up in the meat wagon on the way to Methodist. When I fell, I slid feet first, and Ken had nowhere to go (from what I heard), and hit me dead center on the top of my helmet. I was unconscious at that point, but others filled in the gaps on what happened. Ken rode over the top of me, broke my nose, separated my right shoulder, broke 8 ribs on the right side, right elbow, right knee, and a vertical hairline fracture on my tib. He fell and was clipped by 4th place, and badly broke his leg (I think his femur). We knew each other well, and neither of us spoke about it till the end of the season. I felt bad for causing the situation, and he felt like he should have been able to avoid me (totally impossible from what I heard). Was I wrong for not apologizing? Probably, but I was mortified at my own stupidity. Should he have apologized for running me over? I didn't think so, but he did. Hopefully he had empathy for me not having the nuts to talk to him about it, and I certainly have empathy for his situation.

Wow lots of damage and I see you feeling bad and going forward to try to apologize.

Hope you and he healed up well from that entanglement

 

[kenessex]

I think I became a much better rider after that, learning to ride with a plan and an understanding, rather than just by throwing caution to the wind. I still thank the late Dave Essex for that opportunity.

My brother learned that well, but also the hard way. He was a crasher when he started by not understanding that there are limits that punish you when exceeded. He crashed himself slow and then learned to be methodical in getting back to being faster. He was always faster than me when we started racing, but rarely beat me in a race.

 

[Rdrace42]

Wow lots of damage and I see you feeling bad and going forward to try to apologize.

Hope you and healed up well from that entanglement

The bones all healed. The shoulder not so much, as it tore a rotator cuff on top of everything else. My brain? Well, I have to believe some of the challenges I've had through life were related to all the concussions. It's the risk we take to do something that most people could never conceive of doing. Now we take risks just driving to work, due to the decreasing level of driver ability. Perhaps one of the issues you're having, is the assumption that because this is a community, that we'll all be good stewards of our fellow racer's safety. Mistakes are inherent in the sport. Sometimes those mistakes cost someone else. Maybe in your case the guy is a thoughtless dick. Maybe he's so embarrassed by what happened, he can't face you. Hope you heal well, and can find a way to let the anger go.

 

[Rdrace42]

My brother learned that well, but also the hard way. He was a crasher when he started by not understanding that there are limits that punish you when exceeded. He crashed himself slow and then learned to be methodical in getting back to being faster. He was always faster than me when we started racing, but rarely beat me in a race.

Man, when he first came to ask me to help with the school, he said "man you're fast! Do you know why?". I said "yeah, cuz I've got bigger balls then everyone else". He said, "if you're going to go on thinking that, you better buy more spare crash parts".

 

[Mongo]

Think of Jorge Martin last year. Almost passed out.

So you are dying of thirst and can't take a swig of water. That's what is dumb.

But it's ok to drink during the race...

Sorry but one guy one time doesn't mean you should change the rule. It's not hard to make sure you're hydrated and the weigh in doesn't take all that long.

As for during the race - the rule covers after.

 

[Mongo]

In this case Josh needs to be disqualified as well. If you go to the race on Moto America at 2 hours and 9 minutes his wife dumps water all in his leathers.

What does during the race have to do with after the race weigh in? Also depends on what the rule is regarding water being dumped on you.

This isn't really difficult to understand, the rule is clear, no gray area, just follow it.

 

[Mongo]

But according to the regulation quoted in his letter of sanction, it says you can't add weight, including liquid to the motorcycle. It does not mention adding liquid to the rider. I agree with them that it needs clarification, but in the meantime, I think that a team/rider took advantage of an area not quite covered in the rules. I also agree with the letter of sanction that basically said you got away with it this time, but next year the rules will be clear.

It does cover the rider in the rule they quoted that he broke. But cool they're going to be absolutely clear and allow some leeway.

 

[Used2befast]

I'm sorry but all the rules...they don't regulate fairness. It may be that these rules are why we are calling this a glorified club race.

For example, two teams with the same Gsxr750. Team 1 rider suited with gear weighs 155 lbs and Team 2 competitor on same bike weighs 175 lbs. Are you telling me that Team 1 have to add 20 lbs to their bike?

That being said...

To DQ guys over a few ounces of fuel or a few ounces of water because he was nearly dehydrated.

 

[2blueYam]

To DQ guys over a few ounces of fuel or a few ounces of water because he was nearly dehydrated.

It was more than a few ounces of fuel, and you have to draw the line somewhere or you wind up with 7-gallon tanks. I am pretty sure the rider that took hydration was not DQ'd.

 

[Mongo]

I'm sorry but all the rules...they don't regulate fairness. It may be that these rules are why we are calling this a glorified club race.

For example, two teams with the same Gsxr750. Team 1 rider suited with gear weighs 155 lbs and Team 2 competitor on same bike weighs 175 lbs. Are you telling me that Team 1 have to add 20 lbs to their bike?

That being said...

To DQ guys over a few ounces of fuel or a few ounces of water because he was nearly dehydrated.

Um, no one is calling it a glorified club race at this point....

As for the bike/rider - if the weight limit is what the bikes weigh plus 175 then yes, the 155 rider needs 20 pounds more on the bike. If it's bike and 155 then the 175 pound rider is at a disadvantage.

As for penalizing people for breaking rules, well yeah, that's what happens. Intentional or not. The other 60 plus teams managed to follow them.

 

[Used2befast]

It was more than a few ounces of fuel, and you have to draw the line somewhere or you wind up with 7-gallon tanks. I am pretty sure the rider that took hydration was not DQ'd.

Understand the drawn lines...but don't get it.

Um, no one is calling it a glorified club race at this point....

As for the bike/rider - if the weight limit is what the bikes weigh plus 175 then yes, the 155 rider needs 20 pounds more on the bike. If it's bike and 155 then the 175 pound rider is at a disadvantage.

As for penalizing people for breaking rules, well yeah, that's what happens. Intentional or not. The other 60 plus teams managed to follow them.

Well, when you take the factory riders and points for a championship out of it that is what I'd call it.

I think back to the early days of the Daytona 200...4 stroke 750 against 2 stroke 350. Hmmm...that spirit is seemingly gone.

It's a rules fest D200 that keeps adding more. Maybe some will say the cost isn't worth it anymore. Even the guys calling the race have been caught out.

 

[Mongo]

Understand the drawn lines...but don't get it.

Well, when you take the factory riders and points for a championship out of it that is what I'd call it.

I think back to the early days of the Daytona 200...4 stroke 750 against 2 stroke 350. Hmmm...that spirit is seemingly gone.

It's a rules fest D200 that keeps adding more. Maybe some will say the cost isn't worth it anymore. Even the guys calling the race have been caught out.

It's racing, there are rules. Why would who breaks them matter?

Not to mention the 200 isn't a points race anyway, it's a one off thing.

 

[Used2befast]

It's racing, there are rules. Why would who breaks them matter?

Not to mention the 200 isn't a points race anyway, it's a one off thing.

It shouldn't matter who breaks them...but there is a litany of rules. Some for fairness and some for safety.

Let's explore a safety rule.

Pit lane speed of 37mph.

Good rule to keep those in a hot pit from being injured or killed. I noticed 1 or more individuals with multiple violations of this rule in multiple classes. Violation of the rule equals...a repeated monetary fine? What's your goal motoamerica...peoples safety or $$?